The Chair to advise the Committee of any items on which members of the public have requested to speak and advise those members of the public present of the details of the Council’s public participation scheme.
For those members of the public who have submitted any questions or statements, please note, a three minute time limit applies to each speaker and you will be asked to speak before Councillors debate the issue.
Minutes:
Agenda Item 6 - Watchet Library Asset Transfer Negotiations.
Councillor John Irven made the following Statement:-
I am speaking about agenda item 6) Watchet Library Transfer and your officer’s report. I won’t repeat the information given when I spoke at last month’s meeting, rather justifying our repeated request to transfer the library without overage and pre-emption clauses based on conclusions now drawn by your own report.
Your para 8.2 states that
“Previous advice supplied makes recommendations to include overage and pre- emption provisions within the Heads of Terms and documentation for the disposal, although there is an acceptance that the commercial terms may not be necessary where the transfer is to another public body bound by the same public accountability as SWaT. It is good to read that the use of a commercial overage clause is no longer considered necessary since WTC has identical accountability to SWaT and therefore overage can and should be removed.
Para 8.3 states that
Legal advice remains that the greatest level of protection for SWaT comes from at
the very least a right of pre-emption in favour of SWaT. Protection for the
community can be provided by either public body, thus it must be a decision for the council to consider who is best placed to ensure the continuation of the benefit for the community, either as a library or any other use in the future.
Why should you remove the pre-emption clause?
WLF and the Stoate family trust believe the Town Council through the additional protections we are proposing are best protecting the asset, both as a library and any potential future use for the trust’s beneficial owners, the people of Watchet - not SW&T who have demonstrated governance over asset management which has not been fit for purpose and only belatedly begun to understand your duties as trustees. WLF and the Stoate family will speak to this suitability and additional protection after me.
There is nothing to prevent you and you should therefore remove pre-emption.
If you refuse, I believe there is a reputational risk to the new Council and the new administration. SW&T will be accused of not wanting to protect the asset for the beneficiaries, but for the prospect of retaining a future potential financial gain that will be used for SW&T’s benefit, not that of the community.
We ask that scrutiny recommend to SW&T to support our request to transfer without overage and pre-emption.
Mr Peter Murphy as the Chairman of Watchet Library Friends made the following Statement:-
Thank you for listening to me at your last meeting and thank you for agreeing to consider the future of Watchet Library today.
I explained the background to the situation previously and this is captured in your minutes so I will not repeat it again. I am delighted to inform you that today we are joined by a descendant of the original benefactor, who will also be addressing you shortly.
Watchet Library Friends support the Town Council in entering a Community Library Partnership with Somerset County Council to enable a fully staffed library to continue to operate in Watchet thus fulfilling the terms of the original trust established by Leonard Laity Stoate. In doing so, the Town Council has raised precept funds and has taken responsibility for the library on behalf of the people of Watchet.
The District Council seeks to place overage clauses and a pre-emption clause on the transfer which we oppose. The Town Council has proposed clauses which it believes will protect the asset from arbitrary disposal. These are to place the building on the Community Asset Register and to consult the District Council, the Stoate Trust and the people of Watchet should the building, for whatever reason, cease to be considered suitable for a library in the future. I understand that Philip Stoate will be making further suggestions as to how the duty of trust may be carried out in the future and we support him in this.
Watchet Library Friends believe that in the spirit of Localism, the control and protection of community assets should take place at the lowest practical level of democratic control for the benefit of the people of Watchet. I urge you to recommend that Council transfer the building speedily to the Town Council as advised by the Stoate trust. Do the common sense thing!
Mr Phillip Stoate as descendanta of the original benefactor, Leonard Laity Stoat made the following statement:-
We have seen the representations of Peter Murphy and Chris Hall for the Scrutiny Committee, but not the proposed transfer document itself. We are interested to ensure that the wishes of the benefactor recorded and accepted by the parties in the 1951 lease are honoured. We are both on record as supporting the proposed transfer, as we believe that Watchet Town Council is best placed to manage the property for the benefit of the inhabitants of the town.
However, it appears that the transfer is stated to be for the consideration of £1.00 subject to both an overage clause and a right of pre-emption in favour of Somerset West and Taunton Council.
We consider that any question of consideration for the transfer is wholly inappropriate. The property was given upon trusts which Somerset West and Taunton Council, as successor to West Somerset District Council, has now acknowledged. Although the word “charity” is not mentioned, there can be no doubt that those trusts – that the property be held in trust for the inhabitants of Watchet for use as a library – are charitable in nature, and thus fall to be regulated by the Charity Commission. Appended is a guide for councils acting as charity trustee prepared jointly by the Local Government Association and the Charity Commission.
This makes it clear that trust assets held by a Council must be accounted for entirely separately from those of the Council itself. We rather doubt this was ever done and in our view Somerset West and Taunton Council is confusing the two roles. The reality is that Somerset West and Taunton Council is relinquishing its role as trustee of the property and appointing Watchet Town Council as trustee in its place, and the property transfer is ancilliary to that appointment. No consideration is applicable to the transfer (even £1.00) as it is not a commercial transaction and market value is irrelevant; the value in the property belongs to and will remain with the trust and does not belong to the Council.
Somerset West and Taunton Council say that the provisions are sought to protect the asset for the people of Watchet. There is scant evidence of any such concern hitherto from the Council or its predecessors and talk of market value gets to the nub of it. If an individual trustee attempted to claw back value from a trust asset in the way that Somerset West and Taunton Council are seeking, he would be looking at sanction from the criminal as well civil law.
The guidance also makes clear the procedures involved in the event of a sale of the property, or if for any reason the original purpose of the trust becomes irrelevant. This is overseen by the Charity Commission, but the Town Council and its councillors will be responsible for the proper implementation of the trust.
To ensure that the terms of the trust are recorded, we strongly suggest that there are two documents. The first should be a Deed of Appointment of Trustee, which recites the terms of the trust, that the trusts are charitable and that they are subject to the guidance appended, that the trust assets comprise the library building, and appointing Watchet Town Council as trustee of those trusts in place of Somerset West and Taunton Council. This is a document that would be retained as evidence of the nature of the holding. The second document should be a straightforward transfer without consideration, or any overage or pre-emption conditions, and stated to be pursuant to the first.
In response Councillor Booth as Portfolio Holder for Community made the following statement:-
Following a successful meeting with representatives of Watchet Town Council, the Leader of Somerset West and Taunton and the CEO. The Executive have concluded that it is in the interest of the people of Watchet to ensure this asset is transferred to secure the continuation of the Library.
We look forward to finalising this agreement and supporting the continued delivery of the Community Library Partnership. A revised Executive decision will be published confirming that the Council will support the freehold transfer without the clauses of pre-emption or overage.